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Good night and welcome to this episode of
Jadal TV.

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Today, Monday, 29th of April, 2024.

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And day 205.

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We have not mistaken of Israel's genocidal
war in Gaza.

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And I believe it's been about two weeks
since the beginning of protests in

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American universities, which has been the
headline all across the world.

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My name is Ali Alisa,
and I am basically doing

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mainly news coverage
in Persian language.

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And today is the 7th
episode that we have started

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alongside that covering
the news in English as well.

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Our main point of view is through West
Asia, and we look at the global

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international affairs through lens and
prism of decolonize West Asia fighting

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against imperialism and neoliberalism and
no colonialism.

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I'm really, really proud to say that we
have a special guest today.

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Momodul Taal, that many of you have seen
him already in the news in Al Jazeera and

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many other outlets in the last few weeks
in the last couple of days.

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Momodul is a second year PhD researcher at
Cornell University, and he's a lecturer in

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Cornell, and he's been suspended for his
brave activities and for standing for

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Palestinian people and people in Gaza.

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Good afternoon, Momodul, because I believe
you are in New York and in East Asia,

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much for accepting to talk to me and to my
audience.

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Good afternoon, and thank you so much for
having me.

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I believe it's been already a very busy day
for you and to some extent a stressful day.

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I mean, these days are left and right.

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I mean, we are starting to be late,
and I have to apologize, but I think you

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had to come meeting with your union and
with other things.

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How much we can talk
about that, because at

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the moment it's like
a legal aspect as well.

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But before that, if it's possible,
just introduce yourself and say what

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you're doing in Cornell
and what happened in the

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last couple of days which
led to your suspension.

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Absolutely.

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First and foremost, greetings to all the
viewers, good afternoon, good night,

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wherever you're listening from.

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I guess, first and
foremost, it is important to, I

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guess, give context to
what led to my suspension.

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In solidarity with First and foremost
Gaza, in following the footsteps of those

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in Colombia, Cornell University students
decided to set up an encampment.

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In which we are, we want to engage in a
form of civil disobedience that puts

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pressure on Cornell's campus, puts
pressure on Cornell's administration.

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In that we have recognized that by
Cornell's business partnerships and

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academic partnerships, there is a link and
a direct complicity between this

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institution and the general side of war on
Gaza.

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So in doing so, we have set up an
encampment which is peaceful, non-violent,

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and that we are saying declaratively that
as students of color, Muslims,

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Arabs, Palestinians have said we don't
longer have faith in this institution.

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We no longer believe it is a place in
which people of color can feel safe.

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And we are taking back
the university's ability to

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educate and show that we
can educate ourselves better.

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We can show the other side of the story.

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And that has been met
with forms of repression

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and suspension and I
myself have been suspended.

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So, how many others were suspended in
Cornell?

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Yeah, so myself and three other of my good
friends and comrades.

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And we believe that if we were to decipher
the certain pattern, what has happened is

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a deliberate targeting of
people in perhaps precarious

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positions, such as visa
status, international status.

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And secondly, those people who have been
who they think and they believe that they

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are leaders or organizers, three out of
the four people who have been suspended

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were negotiators, right?

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So we were in those spaces negotiating
with administration.

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So, actually, okay, you
already have touched a

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lot of topics which I
want to talk about that.

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So, you talk about precarity in a general
sense.

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And so, let's go one by one.

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Let's first talk about the precarity in
terms of neoliberalism and the fact that

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you yourself do not have a contract yet,
I believe, as a lecturer.

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So, do you think they were picked up on
purpose and how does this like economic

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precarity and precarity in
regard to your labor rights

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was effective in choosing
you and selecting you?

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I think that's a very good question.

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Right now, we have only unionized quite
recently, so the union is set to bargain

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quite soon in terms of our contract.

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But, as I'm sure you're listening as
aware, but as a PhD student in neoliberal

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universities, you serve a double function,
right?

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You serve as a student, but you're also a
worker.

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So, even the ways in which I get paid is
at a bi-weekly rate.

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I get paid as an employee of the
university, I have to file taxes.

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So, what has happened, I think,
they've targeted people who are precarious

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in terms of job status, visa status,
and among so many other things.

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So, that has been the position
so far of the administration,

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and that definitely feels
targeted and deliberate.

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I think, I mean, it's quite, because I was
suspended from university back in 2010 in

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London, the place that I believe you're
from.

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And that's quite scary.

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I mean, that was like the time that my
visa was running out.

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I believe a week of my visa was left,
and I was also active in Iranian politics,

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and I was worried that if I get deported,
I'll be going to prison in Iran.

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So, it's a very, very stressful time,
and I have a lot of sympathy with your

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situation, and I can guess it's very,
very stressful.

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So, what will happen?

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I mean, how much power
do they have, and how

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much of it have the
exercise on you so far?

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Have they threatened you with expulsion,
with not renewing your contract,

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your scholarship?

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Are you on a scholarship and just explain
what you may lose?

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I am on a scholarship.

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Thus far, they have threatened a
suspension, which means that this academic

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year spring will not mean anything towards
my degree.

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So, all the work I've done research papers
will not mean anything, so it would mean a

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repetition of this year, and I'm not sure
if they're going to pay me over the summer.

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But so far, what they have said is for
certain, if this suspension is upheld,

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that I will not be entitled to have any
credits be counted for this spring semester.

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So, that's the first thing, but your visa
would not be jeopardized?

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It's unsure.

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They haven't said anything about the visa,
but I'm also in contact with lawyers,

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right?

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Because my visa is contingent on being a
student, a four-time student.

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That's one thing.

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Let's go back to another form of
precarity.

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Do you think the racial element here had
any role in selecting you?

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And I mean, you as a black Muslim male,
not being from the US, a foreign citizen,

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overseas a student, do you think those
elements had any part to play?

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I mean, I guess it's difficult to tell,
right?

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Because I am the only black Muslim man that
they targeted, so it's difficult to tell.

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But I would not... I would give the
history of this administration in terms of

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even not even the long history,
but since October the 7th, the way that

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their university has
declared and showed its

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bias and demonstrated
its bias continuously.

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So, for example, there
has been a sideline of voices

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of people of color,
specifically Muslim students.

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And there has been a privilege of pro
-Zionist student voices.

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So, given that the university has
consistently demonstrated its biasness,

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its racism, its Islamophobia, then I would
find it difficult to say that the choices

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that they make are not informed by those
biases, given the evidence that I have.

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Do you see, because I mean, it's not only
you in Cornell, I mean, I'm sure as a

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student activist, you are in contact with
other universities as well, do you see a

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pattern of a similar pattern between how
Cornell management has acted and other

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universities such as Colombia,
Harvard and other places?

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I've been in contact, but again,
this movement is pretty much...

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it's made up of very
different factions, very

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different people and
a lot of different races.

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But I do wonder what the administration's
reaction would be if this wasn't a

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movement that is spearheaded by people of
color.

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I mean, this administration
and several other

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administrations, I do wonder
what the approach would be.

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So, let's just go back
to the way that they have

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targeted these
demonstrations across the US.

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And the main charge was anti-Semitism.

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What's your take on that?

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Have you seen any form of anti-Semitism,
miniscule or grant in your own campus,

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in the encampment that you and other
people led in the last few weeks?

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And do you see this accusation has any
reality or... it might be like a different

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quantity, but have you seen any form of
anti-Semitism in the protest?

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I have seen absolutely no anti-Semitism
from the pro-Palestinian voices on campus.

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I have not seen any form
of anti-Semitism in the

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people I am in contact
with from other campuses.

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We have made it clear consistently that we
condemn anti-Semitism alongside any form

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of racism because anti-Semitism is a form
of racism.

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And our coalition which goes by the acronym
CML is the coalition for mutual liberation.

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And neutral liberation means that we are
deeply invested in anti-racist practices.

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What becomes a problem for me is,
let's talk about Cornell specifically.

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We are being framed as our
movement is anti-Semitism

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and the pro-Palestinian
movement is anti-Semitism.

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Two weeks ago, Cornell
University paid several

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dozens of thousands of
dollars to invite and co-ta.

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And co-ta is a right-wing, well-known,
well-established anti-Semitism,

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some white supremacists.

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So it begs the question, if anti-Semitism
is what the school is trying to root out

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and they clamping down
on Palestinian voices,

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pro-Palestinian voices on
the charge of anti-Semitism?

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Why would they bring a speaker who is well
-established anti-Semite?

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What it suggests to me is there is a
weaponization of anti-Semitism to silence

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the pro-Palestinian voices.

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To repress pro-Palestinian advocacy.

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And so it's difficult.

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And I feel probably the most important
point about anti-Semitism and the charges.

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I feel it becomes such a shame that
Zionism and the project of Israel has

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hollowed out the meaning of anti-Semitism.

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Because now everything you criticize in
state policy is becoming anti-Semitism.

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Say a chance from the river to the sea is
anti-Semitism.

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And say shame that Zionists
have come and co-opted

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and hollowed out the
meaning of anti -Semitism.

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So unfortunately, that has been what has
happened on campus.

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But back to your direct question,
no.

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I would not tolerate any form of anti
-Semitism.

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And we've been clear consistently that we
call it out.

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If it was to ever come up.

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I think your voice is not in sync.

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So I ask you to disconnect and call again.

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Maybe there is some connection with your
internet.

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But I think... Was it
not always in sync?

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Or was it... From beginning,
yeah, from beginning, apparently.

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So I wait for you to call again.

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And I apologize to you.

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The audience asked you to like the
program.

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It allows from the algorithm to get
activated and other people to be informed.

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I try to ask some of your questions to
Momodoo.

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So please put a question at the beginning
of your comment.

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And I will bring them up.

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And I will mention them to our guests.

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Today we're going
to talk about different

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mechanisms of repression
by universities in America.

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And the ways that students are trying to
resist it.

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So, if you're with me for a few seconds,
we're going to have Momodoo again.

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Okay, excellent.

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So, hi again.

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Hello again.

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Is that better?

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Oh, it's much better.

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Yeah, it's perfect.

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I assume it must be in my airports.

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All right, that's okay.

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Perfect.

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Now I can see you and we can have a much
better conversation.

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So, sorry about that.

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So, we were talking yesterday.

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And I mean, you've been active for a
while.

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And I mean, I was on the streets of London
for Palestine for more or less,

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all last 24 years.

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And things are going a bit crazy.

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I mean, you were... I
mean, this whole like

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chant from river to the
sea being antisemitic.

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But it hasn't stopped here.

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And you told me another chant has got
associated with antisemitism.

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What was the one?

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Yeah.

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There is only one solution into further
revolution.

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I can show you what the vice president of
the university, and I quote, said,

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the movement on campus at the encampment
says that they are not antisemitic.

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However, this chant, and I quote,
belies that claim.

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So, the university has taken
a position that that phrase

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is unequivocally antisemitic,
therefore being hate speech.

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But one solution revolution, one solution
into further revolution.

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I mean, how can it be antisemitic?

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00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:24,220
Well, they're saying that the term one
solution is reminence, is reminiscent of

227
00:17:24,570 --> 00:17:29,140
the final solution in Nazi Germany,
which I think is absolutely ridiculous,

228
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:37,720
and why I think that is because I refuse
any connection of European's, Europe's

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00:17:37,745 --> 00:17:41,380
crime of antisemitism to be placed on the
Palestinian struggle.

230
00:17:43,025 --> 00:17:50,900
It is Europe's crime of antisemitism and
not Palestinians that are fought here.

231
00:17:51,300 --> 00:17:56,040
So, I just, a frustrate is frustrating
that, and again, let us foreground and

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00:17:56,190 --> 00:17:59,180
ground ourselves what is actually
happening.

233
00:17:59,340 --> 00:18:03,887
We're talking about a
genocide upwards of 34,000

234
00:18:03,888 --> 00:18:07,541
people confirm so far,
14,000 of which are children.

235
00:18:08,940 --> 00:18:12,680
Several hundred thousands, if not more
displaced, millions displaced,

236
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,780
and 100,000 have yet to be discovered.

237
00:18:15,180 --> 00:18:18,120
And we're having to
manage our words out of the

238
00:18:18,121 --> 00:18:21,281
fear someone might
perceive it as antisemitism.

239
00:18:21,860 --> 00:18:26,000
That is what's happening, and that just
points out to the insanity of it all.

240
00:18:28,330 --> 00:18:29,580
So, it's unbelievable.

241
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,080
I mean, it's like...

242
00:18:32,081 --> 00:18:36,320
We will have an interview tomorrow,
possibly, if not on Wednesday,

243
00:18:36,460 --> 00:18:40,880
and we talk about this whole police
repression in Germany.

244
00:18:41,465 --> 00:18:43,820
And in Germany, it's amazing I was doing
the pre-interview.

245
00:18:44,380 --> 00:18:47,513
And in Germany, they
believe that antisemitism

246
00:18:47,514 --> 00:18:50,420
in Germany is imported
by Muslim immigrants.

247
00:18:52,865 --> 00:18:57,860
Because they cleanse themselves from all
forms of their own antisemitism.

248
00:18:58,575 --> 00:19:03,620
So, whatever new form of antisemitism you
have is imported, is imported by Syrian,

249
00:19:04,540 --> 00:19:10,860
Arab, Turk, and other forms of refugees in
the last couple of years in Germany.

250
00:19:10,861 --> 00:19:15,360
So, okay, let's just take you to other
aspects.

251
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,820
I want to know, I mean, have you...

252
00:19:18,045 --> 00:19:21,200
Because you are like a student of
humanity, and I'm sure I'm asking you as

253
00:19:21,201 --> 00:19:24,940
an analyst, not as a personal... A
person with like personal experience.

254
00:19:25,540 --> 00:19:29,820
How do you think they manage to weaponize
antisemitism?

255
00:19:30,220 --> 00:19:32,420
Do you think... How do they work on it?

256
00:19:32,540 --> 00:19:36,380
Have you seen patterns in the last couple
of years in the United States?

257
00:19:36,381 --> 00:19:39,318
And I'm sure you were
part of a British politics when

258
00:19:39,319 --> 00:19:42,880
antisemitism was weaponized
against Jeremy Corbin, I mean...

259
00:19:43,030 --> 00:19:44,180
Exactly.

260
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:52,380
The thing is, I think so, as an analyst,
what the project of Israel does,

261
00:19:52,860 --> 00:19:57,961
being a Zionist movement,
it allows Europe to absolve

262
00:19:58,011 --> 00:20:01,300
itself of Europe's crimes
against the Jewish people.

263
00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:08,700
So, it becomes the pinnacle of all things
bad.

264
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:10,720
So, antisemitism...

265
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:12,694
So, what we realized
is now a hierarchy, and

266
00:20:12,695 --> 00:20:15,321
this is how whiteness
operates as well, right?

267
00:20:15,385 --> 00:20:17,320
But there's a hierarchy of oppression.

268
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,640
There's a hierarchy of... Oh, sorry.

269
00:20:23,740 --> 00:20:25,140
Did I lose... Ali, can you hear me?

270
00:20:28,780 --> 00:20:30,460
I can't hear you now, sorry.

271
00:20:31,220 --> 00:20:34,300
I gave you the full platform, so you could
be the only star right now.

272
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:35,680
Oh, sorry, my intrusion.

273
00:20:36,020 --> 00:20:37,020
Tell me.

274
00:20:38,380 --> 00:20:40,440
No, I was saying that, thank you.

275
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:41,600
Thank you so much.

276
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,860
But I was saying that we realized there's
a hierarchy and privilege of oppression.

277
00:20:47,660 --> 00:20:49,620
There's a hierarchy of whose feelings
matter.

278
00:20:50,220 --> 00:20:52,835
And in doing so, we
realized there's a hierarchy

279
00:20:52,836 --> 00:20:55,580
that this is like antisemitism
is a form of racism.

280
00:20:56,130 --> 00:21:00,860
But it's a form of racism, like every
other form of racism, like several forms

281
00:21:00,861 --> 00:21:03,980
of racism which are all despicable and
should all be condemned.

282
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,680
However, what has happened with
antisemitism claims is that it's used to

283
00:21:08,681 --> 00:21:14,820
shut down discussion, debate, and people
can say antisemitism and then it becomes

284
00:21:16,020 --> 00:21:17,020
the conversation stops.

285
00:21:18,530 --> 00:21:23,320
And then, until when people are saying
things like these chants are antisemitic,

286
00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:27,140
or when people are saying things like a
free Palestine movement is antisemitic,

287
00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:30,040
we're not even allowed to say,
OK, so let's talk about this, right?

288
00:21:30,180 --> 00:21:31,180
Let's talk about this.

289
00:21:32,830 --> 00:21:40,580
But that's it, which I think is a shame,
because what has happened as a result is

290
00:21:41,105 --> 00:21:46,720
any pro-Palestinian speech, any advocacy
for Palestine, is now viewed as

291
00:21:46,721 --> 00:21:52,040
antisemitic, which is a used form of not
talking about Palestine.

292
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:59,020
So when we're talking about freedom of
speech, we can't just say freedom of

293
00:21:59,021 --> 00:22:03,700
speech in the abstract, we have to say
freedom of speech as it pertains to pro

294
00:22:03,850 --> 00:22:05,060
-Palestinian voices.

295
00:22:05,895 --> 00:22:09,161
So, it's not any speech
that's being suppressed

296
00:22:09,162 --> 00:22:12,060
and repressed, it is
pro -Palestinian speech.

297
00:22:12,460 --> 00:22:16,195
However, the claims, and then
you saw in the New York who

298
00:22:16,196 --> 00:22:19,620
say that antisemitism has run
a mock on college campuses.

299
00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:24,680
I would like to say where, because what I
can tell you about Cornell's campus is we

300
00:22:24,681 --> 00:22:31,080
had in the immediacy of October the 7th,
a student called Patrick Die, who was

301
00:22:31,081 --> 00:22:36,480
unfamiliar to anybody, he put some
statements online on a kind of forum,

302
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:41,100
Greek rank, in which were antisemitic and
calling for violence against Jewish people.

303
00:22:41,650 --> 00:22:44,200
As a result, the school acted decisively.

304
00:22:44,660 --> 00:22:46,820
They had the FBI turned to campus.

305
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:49,820
We had the government of the state turned
to campus.

306
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:58,131
We had Kamala Harris's
husband turn up to campus, Doug,

307
00:22:58,132 --> 00:23:02,400
to reassure the safety of
Jewish students rightfully so.

308
00:23:02,401 --> 00:23:04,600
It was a scary time for them.

309
00:23:04,860 --> 00:23:05,860
I'm a sure.

310
00:23:06,940 --> 00:23:12,115
On the same website, we
had deaths calling for Muslims,

311
00:23:12,116 --> 00:23:15,500
sexual assault threats at
Muslim women who wear hijab.

312
00:23:15,945 --> 00:23:17,640
I have been spat out at campus.

313
00:23:18,060 --> 00:23:22,740
We've had Muslim women have their hijabs
ripped off from Cornell students.

314
00:23:22,741 --> 00:23:27,720
Again, it's like when we bring this up,
the university has been refusing to engage

315
00:23:27,845 --> 00:23:28,580
with these things.

316
00:23:28,860 --> 00:23:33,449
But I said that the feelings
of the safety of pro Zionist

317
00:23:33,450 --> 00:23:38,460
students is paramount and
will be protected at all costs.

318
00:23:39,940 --> 00:23:43,180
But we're just saying that this should be
spread across the board.

319
00:23:43,700 --> 00:23:46,660
But in now, what unfortunately happens
when it comes to antisemitism,

320
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,340
everything and anything is now called
antisemitic, as a means of silence in our

321
00:23:51,490 --> 00:23:52,490
repressing voices.

322
00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:58,300
So actually, one question which was
interesting was, I mean, do you see

323
00:23:58,301 --> 00:24:02,520
actually the police and the state and
university have been antisemitic because

324
00:24:02,521 --> 00:24:07,040
they've been targeting a lot of Jewish
anti Zionist people as well.

325
00:24:09,870 --> 00:24:11,220
No, but this is the point, right?

326
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:13,080
This is the point.

327
00:24:13,260 --> 00:24:14,260
It's not even...

328
00:24:15,660 --> 00:24:19,700
This is what I have to... I've struggled
to understand the claims of antisemitism

329
00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:28,341
because we have so many anti Zionist Jewish
comrades and friends in our movement.

330
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,480
But they're called... by the Zionist
students, token Jews, they're called

331
00:24:33,481 --> 00:24:36,840
sellouts and what... but how is that not
antisemitism?

332
00:24:38,740 --> 00:24:42,397
Shouldn't antisemitism,
which is a form of

333
00:24:42,398 --> 00:24:46,361
racism, that seeks to
homogenize a population?

334
00:24:46,775 --> 00:24:50,920
When you seek to homogenize the Jewish
population, I will say, all Jewish people

335
00:24:50,921 --> 00:24:54,281
must be pro Zionist or all
Jewish students must be in

336
00:24:54,282 --> 00:24:57,061
defense of Israel, how is
that not a form of racism?

337
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:00,820
That's very interesting actually.

338
00:25:00,980 --> 00:25:04,640
That was going to be my next question
because... I mean, you are... I'm sure

339
00:25:04,641 --> 00:25:11,620
you've been part of a different form of
anti-racism movements and activism as well.

340
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,760
And this is exactly... I mean,
how this thing about Palestine brings all

341
00:25:15,761 --> 00:25:20,480
of them together and
this very, like, really,

342
00:25:20,481 --> 00:25:23,840
unsmart use of
antisemitism as a weapon.

343
00:25:23,841 --> 00:25:26,140
I mean, it would be very easy for people.

344
00:25:26,260 --> 00:25:29,440
I mean, it is for a generation which has
gone through Black Lives Matter,

345
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,700
a generation which is reading a lot of
anti-colonial, like literature,

346
00:25:34,300 --> 00:25:38,260
a generation which is familiar with the
question of racism.

347
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,940
How do they... how do they think that this
generation fall for it again?

348
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,560
I mean, are they falling for it?

349
00:25:45,580 --> 00:25:47,274
I mean, in the campus in
that large, do you think any of

350
00:25:47,275 --> 00:25:53,280
the kind of people would buy
antisemitism as a weapon?

351
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,863
Pro-Zionist students, yes, everyone...
again, I don't know how everyone else can.

352
00:25:59,864 --> 00:25:59,880
..

353
00:25:59,881 --> 00:26:01,483
I don't want to speak
for people, but as far

354
00:26:01,484 --> 00:26:03,641
as movement, let's
just all give it one more.

355
00:26:04,140 --> 00:26:07,083
So we had a referendum
last week and we

356
00:26:07,084 --> 00:26:09,980
presented the undergrad
population two things.

357
00:26:10,420 --> 00:26:11,420
Two problems.

358
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:16,320
Question one, should Cornell call for a
permanent ceasefire?

359
00:26:17,290 --> 00:26:20,940
Question two, should Cornell divest from
weapons manufacturers?

360
00:26:21,690 --> 00:26:25,110
Nine of which are American
defense contracts, weapon

361
00:26:25,210 --> 00:26:28,340
manufacturers, and one of
which is an Israeli company.

362
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,900
This was the first referendum in more than
25 years, historic referendum,

363
00:26:34,540 --> 00:26:35,680
historic participation.

364
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,540
Over 7,000 students participated.

365
00:26:38,820 --> 00:26:43,640
Cornell is a campus of 24, 25,000 people,
7,000 people participated.

366
00:26:44,340 --> 00:26:45,540
The referendum won.

367
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:47,040
We won.

368
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:48,760
Two to one.

369
00:26:49,810 --> 00:26:53,720
5,000 and the other side reconversed,
right?

370
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,300
The other side who was conversing said
that this referendum is antisemitic

371
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,600
because it targets Israel and other
places.

372
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:02,840
It makes Jewish students feel unsafe.

373
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,560
It's antisemitic.

374
00:27:05,900 --> 00:27:12,300
5,500 students said yes to divestment and
yes to a ceasefire.

375
00:27:13,300 --> 00:27:15,622
Does Cornell University
administration really

376
00:27:15,623 --> 00:27:18,481
want to say all these
people are antisemitic?

377
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,140
Does that even hold any weight?

378
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:21,660
Does that even make any sense?

379
00:27:22,180 --> 00:27:23,180
Of course not.

380
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,620
Clearly, we can see that Zionism has
nothing to do with Judaism.

381
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,580
Zionism is a colonial settler colonial
project.

382
00:27:31,220 --> 00:27:33,300
Israel is a settler colony.

383
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,460
And again, as you rightly said,
it's like what do people with now you

384
00:27:37,685 --> 00:27:42,880
understand why the right wing is so having
a heart attack about decolonial studies

385
00:27:42,881 --> 00:27:47,580
and critical race theories and reading fun
on and all these other thinkers because

386
00:27:48,180 --> 00:27:52,380
this is a generation in which fun on is
becoming a house is more increasingly

387
00:27:52,381 --> 00:27:56,380
becoming a household name for so many
people on their critical journey.

388
00:27:56,930 --> 00:28:00,460
Ratchet of the earth is like a staple in
so many young people's lives.

389
00:28:01,390 --> 00:28:02,390
What did they expect?

390
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,940
They see this as a settler colony.

391
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:06,320
They see this as colonialism.

392
00:28:06,580 --> 00:28:07,580
People are reading.

393
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,300
People have... why is it
that the lawmakers of this

394
00:28:11,301 --> 00:28:13,900
country are now calling
for the banning of TikTok?

395
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:20,700
Hey, Jonathan will say green black
explicitly said in recording that they're

396
00:28:20,701 --> 00:28:25,040
losing the battle because Israel relies on
propaganda.

397
00:28:25,590 --> 00:28:29,140
Hasbara has been historically strong in
propaganda.

398
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,740
And this is why Zionism is in crisis.

399
00:28:32,220 --> 00:28:35,046
And this is why Israel is
in crisis because majority

400
00:28:35,047 --> 00:28:37,480
of young American Jews
don't even support Israel.

401
00:28:37,481 --> 00:28:39,580
All right.

402
00:28:40,570 --> 00:28:42,579
It's getting very
interesting as you have a lot

403
00:28:42,580 --> 00:28:45,061
of questions just coming
up and boiling my head.

404
00:28:45,650 --> 00:28:50,540
But first of all, you don't have a meeting
after this.

405
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,960
So we have a bit of half an overtime to
go.

406
00:28:54,660 --> 00:28:55,100
Yes.

407
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:55,840
Okay.

408
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:57,956
Still, I mean, you are
a bit out of sync and it

409
00:28:57,957 --> 00:29:00,541
might be because of
your internet connection.

410
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:01,800
Do you think we can use Skype?

411
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:03,080
Do you have a Skype?

412
00:29:04,660 --> 00:29:05,120
Yeah.

413
00:29:05,300 --> 00:29:06,840
Oh, let me download it.

414
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:07,880
I can download it.

415
00:29:08,260 --> 00:29:09,860
It's going to take a while, I think,
now.

416
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,261
So... Yeah.

417
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:14,860
Am I still out of sync now?

418
00:29:17,630 --> 00:29:20,493
You can change your
connection or go to a

419
00:29:20,494 --> 00:29:23,120
different wifi or different
for you or something.

420
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:24,680
Let me.

421
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,188
We usually like double check
before, but I mean, momo

422
00:29:31,189 --> 00:29:35,600
do was writing the middle
of encampment and others.

423
00:29:38,380 --> 00:29:40,240
Let me... Let me restart.

424
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:41,640
Let me restart it.

425
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:43,160
Okay.

426
00:29:43,161 --> 00:29:43,600
Yeah.

427
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:45,440
I can ask the audience as well.

428
00:29:45,940 --> 00:29:50,081
If it does bother them or not, because
we're going to use the clips as well later.

429
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:56,041
So, if people just keep in the comments,
what is... Let me know in the comments.

430
00:29:56,540 --> 00:29:57,540
Let me start.

431
00:29:58,420 --> 00:29:58,420
Okay.

432
00:29:59,180 --> 00:29:59,300
Okay.

433
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:00,920
We're going to wait for momo do.

434
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:07,482
And meanwhile, I'm going
to introduce the programs

435
00:30:07,483 --> 00:30:11,041
we had recently and
made a comment on this.

436
00:30:11,660 --> 00:30:16,700
So, we had six episodes so far,
and I would be...

437
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:23,520
One of them, the previous one was with one
of the activists in front of Israeli

438
00:30:23,521 --> 00:30:28,600
Embassy in Washington, which I recommend
you to go and watch.

439
00:30:28,820 --> 00:30:32,180
The previous one was with Alem McLeod from
Mintpress.

440
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:34,300
Okay.

441
00:30:34,540 --> 00:30:35,540
Let's see.

442
00:30:37,900 --> 00:30:40,260
And I'm very proud
to say next week we're

443
00:30:40,261 --> 00:30:43,501
going to have an interview
with Max Blumenthal.

444
00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:45,720
And so, okay.

445
00:30:46,550 --> 00:30:50,620
Let me just bring momo to up and we
continue.

446
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:51,800
Here we go.

447
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:52,920
Okay.

448
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:54,480
I hope that is okay.

449
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:56,160
How is that now?

450
00:30:56,500 --> 00:30:57,300
It's much better, yeah.

451
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:58,520
It's over the start as well.

452
00:30:59,300 --> 00:31:00,300
I don't know why.

453
00:31:00,820 --> 00:31:01,360
So, okay.

454
00:31:01,660 --> 00:31:04,620
I think this is very, very interesting,
because...

455
00:31:04,970 --> 00:31:09,720
So, has it been any attempt, or maybe I'm
getting old and it shows my age?

456
00:31:10,045 --> 00:31:15,421
Has it been any attempt to connect you with
Islamic fundamentalism, with terrorism?

457
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:23,680
Because in 2000, 2001, 2003, in the war on
terror, if there was proper radical or

458
00:31:23,681 --> 00:31:30,320
meaningful form of resistance against
imperialistic wars of the UK and America

459
00:31:30,321 --> 00:31:34,760
in Afghanistan or Iraq or trying to
continue their wars in Middle East,

460
00:31:35,010 --> 00:31:41,120
one of the things that we try was like to
connect you to Islamic organization and to

461
00:31:41,121 --> 00:31:45,580
use that label in the last few weeks here
in American campuses.

462
00:31:45,820 --> 00:31:48,960
Has it been... because a lot of the
students have been Muslim, even though

463
00:31:49,310 --> 00:31:51,380
Jewish students have
been around... A.C.

464
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:56,860
students have been around Christian, it's
very interface and it's multi -faceted.

465
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:02,861
But has it been any try of using the
reminiscent of the language of war on terror?

466
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:04,200
Absolutely.

467
00:32:04,580 --> 00:32:08,600
I mean, not directly from Cornell's
administration, but we've heard from law

468
00:32:08,601 --> 00:32:11,850
enforcement law makers in
Congress how many times

469
00:32:11,851 --> 00:32:15,480
we've heard that these are
pro -Hamas rallies, right?

470
00:32:16,140 --> 00:32:19,660
That, you know, some kind of foreign aid,
we've heard people say, China,

471
00:32:20,100 --> 00:32:25,580
we've heard this pro-Hamas rallies or pro
-Hamas as designers say.

472
00:32:27,010 --> 00:32:30,740
We've had two weeks ago a Jewish unity
rally, which was a Zionist rally,

473
00:32:30,860 --> 00:32:36,160
say that this is a pro-Hamas people on
campus and Hamas has taken over and we've

474
00:32:36,161 --> 00:32:38,440
had faculty say things like these are
terrorists.

475
00:32:39,060 --> 00:32:41,200
So yeah, the language is still there.

476
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,440
China, how can China be connected to
Hamas?

477
00:32:47,370 --> 00:32:48,400
I wish I could have that.

478
00:32:48,460 --> 00:32:54,320
I don't have the answer, but, you know,
typically people will never ascribe agency

479
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,320
to people of color when they rise up.

480
00:32:57,500 --> 00:32:59,120
This is a colonial tactic.

481
00:32:59,690 --> 00:33:00,940
Think of Cold War rhetoric.

482
00:33:01,525 --> 00:33:06,460
It's always some foreign entity that has
got into their minds and brainwashed the

483
00:33:06,461 --> 00:33:10,500
colonized people who are actively
resisting their oppression.

484
00:33:11,020 --> 00:33:12,020
It's the same thing.

485
00:33:13,420 --> 00:33:18,060
So, you're like working with a lot of
young, you're from London, aren't you?

486
00:33:18,820 --> 00:33:19,820
Yeah.

487
00:33:20,050 --> 00:33:26,260
But you are working with a lot of American
students and you're like PhD, you're

488
00:33:26,261 --> 00:33:29,740
slightly older than them, I think,
you're around 30 and these are students,

489
00:33:29,741 --> 00:33:32,020
some of them are very young, 18,
19, 20.

490
00:33:33,820 --> 00:33:37,720
Are there any of them coming out of like
Black Lives Matter or what's the

491
00:33:37,721 --> 00:33:41,680
relationship with the recent racial
awakening in England?

492
00:33:41,681 --> 00:33:43,300
In the United States and across Europe?

493
00:33:44,650 --> 00:33:47,340
Yeah, a lot of them have lived through
Black Lives Matter.

494
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,420
A lot of them were in the pandemic,
right?

495
00:33:49,580 --> 00:33:54,200
They were at home, they had time to read,
decolonization has become a thing,

496
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:59,660
defund, the police has become rhetoric,
abolition has become the rhetoric.

497
00:33:59,661 --> 00:34:04,020
We had Bernie Sanders campaign and whilst
we can critique so many things and

498
00:34:04,021 --> 00:34:08,960
rightfully so and actually condemn Bernie
Sanders for, what we can say is that this

499
00:34:09,110 --> 00:34:10,740
aspect of what is socialism.

500
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,900
People are thinking of social,
a social democrat.

501
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:19,420
All these questions and all these young
people are growing up in a milieu that has

502
00:34:19,421 --> 00:34:23,760
that this rhetoric and this language is
becoming commonplace.

503
00:34:25,140 --> 00:34:29,260
The young people in general consider
themselves a leftist, right?

504
00:34:29,580 --> 00:34:32,896
Wherever by different
persuasions, anarchism, Marxism,

505
00:34:32,897 --> 00:34:35,260
they no longer believe
in what they've been told.

506
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,580
And I think at the fundamental level,
they have the material conditions have

507
00:34:39,730 --> 00:34:42,560
proven that capitalism is a failure.

508
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,600
Capitalism has been a lie and a lot of
young people are understanding that.

509
00:34:53,940 --> 00:34:55,440
Sorry Ali, I can't hear you at the moment.

510
00:34:55,441 --> 00:34:58,760
Sorry, I turn off the thing for the
ambient noise.

511
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,340
But so actually, I was going to ask you
about this whole question of capitalism

512
00:35:03,341 --> 00:35:09,080
and how far, how much deeper, how much more
radical this movement you think it will go.

513
00:35:09,530 --> 00:35:14,100
But before that, I want to bring some of
the accusations against this movement and

514
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:15,400
not accusation.

515
00:35:15,870 --> 00:35:21,080
But Wall Street Journal, if I can just
quickly grab the thing and show the thing

516
00:35:21,081 --> 00:35:23,560
to the audience, you might have seen it
yourself.

517
00:35:23,561 --> 00:35:29,740
Wall Street Journal, in order to diminish
and belittle the movement, said the

518
00:35:29,741 --> 00:35:35,500
entered college in isolation and live in
protest, the class that missed out on fun.

519
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,920
I don't know whether it was discussed among
your friends or not, among your comrades.

520
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:46,920
But Wall Street, I mean, his analysis was
because of pandemic, because they didn't

521
00:35:46,921 --> 00:35:51,641
have much normal student demos, that's
what they're discussing or happening.

522
00:35:55,900 --> 00:35:57,860
What your answer would be to that?

523
00:36:00,460 --> 00:36:03,820
I just have to laugh, because I've also
read another statement.

524
00:36:05,180 --> 00:36:09,860
I think it was New Yorker, the New York
Post, the New Yorker, I don't ever read

525
00:36:09,861 --> 00:36:13,324
that paper, that said that
students are not having

526
00:36:13,325 --> 00:36:15,981
enough sex, so therefore
they're becoming pro-Palestine.

527
00:36:17,220 --> 00:36:19,200
That has been the rhetoric I've heard.

528
00:36:19,780 --> 00:36:26,120
Because again, once again, a refusal to...
it's just a red herring, it's a

529
00:36:26,121 --> 00:36:30,600
distraction, it obfuscates, but
fundamentally, it's a refusal to recognize

530
00:36:30,601 --> 00:36:34,500
the intelligence and the moral capacity of
young people.

531
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:35,840
That's why it is.

532
00:36:35,940 --> 00:36:41,120
It's straight up the refusal to recognize
the moral capacity of young people who

533
00:36:41,121 --> 00:36:43,647
have found an issue
that they feel so strongly

534
00:36:43,648 --> 00:36:45,760
about, that they are
willing to be arrested.

535
00:36:46,210 --> 00:36:47,531
They are willing to be suspended.

536
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,560
They are willing to bear the consequences
of being the right side of history,

537
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:57,180
which isn't that strange, because we have
examples of the Vietnam War.

538
00:36:57,580 --> 00:36:59,920
We have examples of the anti-apartheid
movement.

539
00:37:00,580 --> 00:37:04,460
And we have examples of the Black Spring
VLM.

540
00:37:05,020 --> 00:37:09,640
So once again, it's a shame that this is
the rhetoric, and it's a shame that anyone

541
00:37:09,641 --> 00:37:12,704
even takes it seriously,
because one of the things

542
00:37:12,705 --> 00:37:15,041
I have is quite telling,
I'll be honest with you.

543
00:37:15,185 --> 00:37:19,570
I've done a lot of press
from October the 7th,

544
00:37:19,571 --> 00:37:23,401
but most particularly
since my suspension.

545
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:28,420
And journalists will say that,
oh, there's somehow a bit shocked,

546
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,860
especially right wing journalists,
are a bit shocked at how measured they

547
00:37:32,861 --> 00:37:37,460
say, quote, measured I am, or how calm and
collected I am.

548
00:37:38,255 --> 00:37:40,180
And again, it's just quite telling,
right?

549
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,140
Because what would lead you to have an
assumption otherwise?

550
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:51,800
So actually, you took us to, probably you
said, these students find something that

551
00:37:51,801 --> 00:37:56,820
they are on the right side of history and
think, actually, one question would be

552
00:37:57,020 --> 00:37:58,020
like, why so late?

553
00:37:58,580 --> 00:38:01,060
Why waiting 190 days, if anything?

554
00:38:01,860 --> 00:38:07,000
And the answer is, because you can tell
us, my question is, at the beginning,

555
00:38:07,001 --> 00:38:12,360
back in October, they use a lot of
tactics, and many of them were hidden.

556
00:38:12,980 --> 00:38:20,980
And they were covered, covered tactics of
intimidation, and threats of expulsion,

557
00:38:21,495 --> 00:38:23,300
and not renewing many countries.

558
00:38:23,580 --> 00:38:28,260
So, can you tell us why this thing is
erupted so late, actually, because a

559
00:38:28,261 --> 00:38:33,920
genocide, even what was named,
a genocide by ICJ, and many, like,

560
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,100
counter mainstream organizations,
about two months ago.

561
00:38:38,101 --> 00:38:43,780
And a student who should be the front
line, the avant-garde, and the vanguard of

562
00:38:43,781 --> 00:38:46,500
the movement have come out quite late,
why?

563
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:49,201
No, thank you for that question.

564
00:38:49,240 --> 00:38:54,209
I would say, on campus,
we have been trying to

565
00:38:54,210 --> 00:38:58,241
escalate, but as we had a
phrase on campus, right?

566
00:38:58,805 --> 00:39:03,180
Like, any escalation must come with
education, right?

567
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:08,881
So, yes, people are seeing the horrific
images, yes, people are seeing the genocide.

568
00:39:09,550 --> 00:39:12,660
At the same time, and I think this is,
again, this can be a critique,

569
00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:16,860
a valid critique, at the same time,
in short that we can pull off what we are

570
00:39:16,985 --> 00:39:19,760
pulling off, we need the bodies,
we need the numbers.

571
00:39:20,205 --> 00:39:23,240
And that can only come from an informed
student population.

572
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,380
And whilst, yes, people are seeing the
images, we have to keep constantly...

573
00:39:27,381 --> 00:39:30,000
We had teachings non-stop.

574
00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:35,720
I served on a teaching, several teachings
about Israel and Congo to show the

575
00:39:35,721 --> 00:39:40,650
intersections, Israel's telecolonialism,
you know, is what is Zionism constantly.

576
00:39:41,220 --> 00:39:45,505
So, we had to keep informing
the student population

577
00:39:45,506 --> 00:39:48,160
to pull off an escalation
of this magnitude.

578
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:49,630
But again, that's just one escalation.

579
00:39:49,631 --> 00:39:53,973
About a month ago, 24
students on Cornell's campus

580
00:39:53,974 --> 00:39:57,270
were arrested for an
occupation of a building.

581
00:39:57,710 --> 00:40:00,050
In December, we occupied another building.

582
00:40:00,590 --> 00:40:00,650
Right?

583
00:40:01,090 --> 00:40:05,590
People might not have heard these things
on the outside, but there were escalations.

584
00:40:05,930 --> 00:40:13,930
And I think fundamentally, we have to do,
in our localities, what is feasible for us

585
00:40:13,931 --> 00:40:16,210
to do, and what will have the most
meaningful impact.

586
00:40:16,410 --> 00:40:20,763
So now, we are obviously
glad that Colombia did what they

587
00:40:20,764 --> 00:40:24,910
did, and so many followed
still afterwards, which is...

588
00:40:24,911 --> 00:40:27,310
But I agree, I think that's a critique of
the movement.

589
00:40:28,090 --> 00:40:30,770
But I just think from... I can only
speak... I can't speak again.

590
00:40:31,050 --> 00:40:34,250
We're speaking about a nationwide campus
protest.

591
00:40:34,625 --> 00:40:39,050
I could only speak about the issues at
Cornell, and what we did and why we did it.

592
00:40:39,725 --> 00:40:44,830
So, basically, you say, at least in
Cornell, the movement has been alive from

593
00:40:44,831 --> 00:40:51,310
day one after 7th of October, and only
after Colombia, it became newsworthy.

594
00:40:51,750 --> 00:40:54,050
And somehow, by the way, they started
covering it.

595
00:40:55,730 --> 00:40:57,750
So, we had a few press.

596
00:40:58,030 --> 00:41:02,117
I had been interviewed
in October, about CNN,

597
00:41:02,118 --> 00:41:04,891
NBC, and several
other mainstream outlets.

598
00:41:05,650 --> 00:41:11,470
But in terms of press coverage,
nationally, internationally, it died down.

599
00:41:13,060 --> 00:41:14,470
It did die down.

600
00:41:15,420 --> 00:41:18,470
But in terms of where we're at...

601
00:41:18,471 --> 00:41:20,566
Now, obviously, it's picked back up in
terms of the press.

602
00:41:20,590 --> 00:41:21,270
Am I still in sync?

603
00:41:21,570 --> 00:41:21,990
Am I okay?

604
00:41:21,991 --> 00:41:22,890
Yeah, yeah, perfect.

605
00:41:22,990 --> 00:41:23,990
They're gone.

606
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,041
Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

607
00:41:26,460 --> 00:41:28,686
So, we've still been
carrying on, but it has

608
00:41:28,687 --> 00:41:31,310
definitely taken the
national nationwide thing.

609
00:41:31,710 --> 00:41:37,170
And to be fair, whilst I agree the steps
could have...

610
00:41:37,171 --> 00:41:40,390
Like, it could have became a national... I
mean, to be fair, to be fair.

611
00:41:40,975 --> 00:41:42,216
I think it has been nationwide.

612
00:41:42,670 --> 00:41:44,270
It just hasn't been reported nationwide.

613
00:41:44,450 --> 00:41:49,491
Maybe because the actions have not been
coordinated, and they've not been the same.

614
00:41:49,570 --> 00:41:52,460
But at the same time, what's
unfortunate about it now,

615
00:41:52,461 --> 00:41:55,170
is that we are taking away
from talking about Palestine.

616
00:41:55,750 --> 00:41:59,016
So now, the nationwide
news is talking about the

617
00:41:59,017 --> 00:42:02,590
encampments and not the
discovery of mass graves in Gaza.

618
00:42:03,790 --> 00:42:09,950
Now, the mainstream press are talking
about students and encampments,

619
00:42:10,425 --> 00:42:14,430
and not about the attack on Rafa recently.

620
00:42:14,431 --> 00:42:17,710
So, yeah, so that's my point.

621
00:42:18,350 --> 00:42:20,910
Unfortunately, that has been the talking
point in many ways.

622
00:42:21,450 --> 00:42:22,546
And I don't think it should be.

623
00:42:22,570 --> 00:42:24,730
Students should not add the forefront of
this movement.

624
00:42:25,070 --> 00:42:26,070
Palestinian resistance.

625
00:42:27,445 --> 00:42:31,410
So actually, that's a very nice point that
you kind of touched.

626
00:42:31,830 --> 00:42:38,270
Because I had this discussion with a
comrade that saying that we do narrate

627
00:42:38,271 --> 00:42:44,130
things from the point of view of global
north, from the white man, whatever.

628
00:42:44,131 --> 00:42:51,830
And even 68, our memory of 68 is memory of
students, memory of Vanessa Redgrave

629
00:42:51,831 --> 00:42:57,610
students, the radicals in New York,
in London, even like Tariq Ali.

630
00:42:58,050 --> 00:43:02,310
Whereas, it should be the story of
Vietcongs pushing the imperialist back.

631
00:43:02,750 --> 00:43:09,030
It should be the history of 4 million
Vietnamese killed unjustly by B-52.

632
00:43:09,350 --> 00:43:10,010
And I say it's fine.

633
00:43:10,130 --> 00:43:14,070
But at the same time, we shouldn't put
these students in an opposition.

634
00:43:14,071 --> 00:43:14,550
To Gaza.

635
00:43:14,830 --> 00:43:17,770
Because I mean, they're helping Gaza to be
heard.

636
00:43:17,930 --> 00:43:19,970
And I think two things confirm what I
said.

637
00:43:20,370 --> 00:43:25,182
One, the statement by Columbia
University was so conscious

638
00:43:25,183 --> 00:43:28,510
that we don't want to
draw attention to ourselves.

639
00:43:28,990 --> 00:43:31,670
We want the attention to stay on
Palestine.

640
00:43:32,070 --> 00:43:39,990
And second thing was this beautiful images
emerging from Gaza by Palestinians.

641
00:43:39,991 --> 00:43:42,630
Thank you very much Columbia University
students.

642
00:43:43,525 --> 00:43:47,613
So, I think that was like
more harmony rather than one

643
00:43:47,614 --> 00:43:50,490
trying to get the pull attention
away from the other one.

644
00:43:50,610 --> 00:43:51,610
What do you think?

645
00:43:51,970 --> 00:43:52,970
No, no, I agree.

646
00:43:53,210 --> 00:43:57,190
And I think I've been contacted personally
from people from Palestine who are afraid

647
00:43:57,191 --> 00:44:01,390
about my suspension and said, we hope a lot
of mutual suspension and we are with you.

648
00:44:01,670 --> 00:44:02,670
And we thank you so much.

649
00:44:03,050 --> 00:44:07,410
And whilst I brought me to tears at the
time, I'm just...

650
00:44:07,411 --> 00:44:08,531
So, they're not in conflict.

651
00:44:09,250 --> 00:44:12,570
And we... But we did not take the
movement.

652
00:44:12,850 --> 00:44:17,430
For me, I say I take my cue and mandate
from the dozens in Palestinians.

653
00:44:17,970 --> 00:44:18,970
We sent to those voices.

654
00:44:19,170 --> 00:44:24,011
And I just... I'm just very mindful knowing
how movements can become cooperative.

655
00:44:24,290 --> 00:44:27,430
Knowing how movements can narratives can
be changed.

656
00:44:28,110 --> 00:44:28,110
Right?

657
00:44:28,890 --> 00:44:32,130
You mentioned BLM several times in this
conversation.

658
00:44:32,730 --> 00:44:37,285
We saw what movements
under capitalism, under

659
00:44:37,286 --> 00:44:41,230
neoliberalism can... how
they can be co -opted.

660
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:42,510
We witnessed that.

661
00:44:42,830 --> 00:44:47,710
We witnessed one of the biggest uprisings
of a generation become funneled into DEI

662
00:44:47,860 --> 00:44:50,550
practices and funneled into neoliberalism.

663
00:44:50,910 --> 00:44:52,210
So, given that is the case.

664
00:44:52,410 --> 00:44:55,562
And given that we've all
witnessed that, we are very careful

665
00:44:55,563 --> 00:44:58,530
of how movements can be
co-opted and narratives can be shifted.

666
00:44:58,955 --> 00:45:01,655
So, for example, when we're
speaking about a lot of the

667
00:45:01,656 --> 00:45:04,930
mainstream media has
talking about freedom of speech.

668
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:12,950
My response is freedom of speech should be
constantly rooted back to...

669
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,030
It's not freedom of speech in the
abstract.

670
00:45:15,535 --> 00:45:18,010
It's freedom of pro-Palestinian speech.

671
00:45:18,250 --> 00:45:18,330
Right?

672
00:45:18,810 --> 00:45:20,570
And so, again, I'm not making the
opposition.

673
00:45:20,870 --> 00:45:24,148
I'm just saying that
loudly and clearly,

674
00:45:24,149 --> 00:45:27,190
that for me, the movement
is about Palestine.

675
00:45:27,470 --> 00:45:30,950
And anything that happens just needs to be
constantly rooted back to Palestine.

676
00:45:32,310 --> 00:45:32,850
Excellent.

677
00:45:33,130 --> 00:45:34,390
Okay, it's very, very, very interesting.

678
00:45:34,391 --> 00:45:38,070
So, I'm very happy that you said that
because we're going to go towards the end

679
00:45:38,270 --> 00:45:41,830
to the question that we had from beginning
68.

680
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:46,170
From New York Times to Washington Post,
they are all like equine 68.

681
00:45:46,510 --> 00:45:48,610
This is a new 68, the student 68.

682
00:45:49,130 --> 00:45:57,010
First of all, is this consciousness of...
is this like connection to 68 present in

683
00:45:57,011 --> 00:46:00,510
the collective consciousness of the
students in the protest?

684
00:46:01,910 --> 00:46:02,910
Absolutely.

685
00:46:03,190 --> 00:46:04,190
And it's very telling.

686
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,950
It's very telling that the students are
invoking 68.

687
00:46:09,125 --> 00:46:10,530
That is deliberate.

688
00:46:11,370 --> 00:46:20,350
Because 68 was when the Viet Cong, a
resistance movement, overcame imperialism.

689
00:46:21,090 --> 00:46:21,090
Right?

690
00:46:21,990 --> 00:46:23,550
And we're not... yes, we are...

691
00:46:23,551 --> 00:46:26,990
We're as remnants of anti-apartheid
struggle, but for all intents and

692
00:46:26,991 --> 00:46:31,230
purposes, anti-apartheid did not uproot
the colonial equation.

693
00:46:31,830 --> 00:46:36,190
Whilst you had a national black
bourgeoisie emerge, whilst you had some

694
00:46:36,191 --> 00:46:38,818
set, let's leave some
set, let's remain, the

695
00:46:38,819 --> 00:46:41,971
economics of apartheid
remained in South Africa.

696
00:46:42,110 --> 00:46:45,843
So, the invocation of 1968 is
a deliberate invocation we're

697
00:46:45,844 --> 00:46:48,770
saying this was a resistance
against imperialism that won.

698
00:46:49,430 --> 00:46:51,270
And that's why we're invoking that memory
more.

699
00:46:52,390 --> 00:46:53,390
OK, all right.

700
00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:58,570
So, and then at this stage, I mean,
so you think 68 would not be enough,

701
00:46:59,050 --> 00:47:01,650
but the question is even so far.

702
00:47:01,770 --> 00:47:05,650
I mean, this movement is capable of
becoming as big as 68.

703
00:47:06,290 --> 00:47:10,430
So before going to the limitation of 68,
let's just see the limitation of this one.

704
00:47:10,490 --> 00:47:17,150
Do you think that the material conditions
are enough to allow this movement to grow

705
00:47:17,151 --> 00:47:22,330
nationwide and also globally to other
European countries, to become as 68 first?

706
00:47:24,370 --> 00:47:25,370
No, absolutely.

707
00:47:25,430 --> 00:47:28,265
I'm not diminishing 68,
so I'm saying us invoking

708
00:47:28,266 --> 00:47:31,031
68 would want to
invoke that legacy more.

709
00:47:31,910 --> 00:47:35,430
And I think where things are going now,
it does not seem like it's slowing down.

710
00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:39,030
And we already know the dialectic,
right?

711
00:47:39,150 --> 00:47:45,710
We spoke before yesterday about Hegel
briefly, the meaning that when you have

712
00:47:45,711 --> 00:47:47,910
repression, you're going to produce
resistance.

713
00:47:48,635 --> 00:47:53,079
And the images in which we
have seen faculty, students,

714
00:47:53,129 --> 00:47:58,330
staff, pummel to the ground,
arrested, brutalized by police.

715
00:47:58,810 --> 00:47:59,810
This isn't going away.

716
00:48:00,470 --> 00:48:01,470
This isn't going away.

717
00:48:01,810 --> 00:48:04,650
It's a watershed moment and I don't think
history will ever be the same.

718
00:48:05,340 --> 00:48:10,430
And if the other side gets more clever and
like, I don't know, calibrate the police

719
00:48:10,431 --> 00:48:13,071
repression and also
because, I mean, there

720
00:48:13,072 --> 00:48:15,270
are mechanisms,
technologies of repression.

721
00:48:15,271 --> 00:48:20,994
So far, I've been a bit
careless, ruthless and brutal,

722
00:48:20,995 --> 00:48:24,510
so you don't think there
are capable of containing it.

723
00:48:26,210 --> 00:48:27,210
No.

724
00:48:28,490 --> 00:48:32,930
Again, I mean, again, this is not to say
that they don't have the mean technology

725
00:48:32,931 --> 00:48:36,970
of being violent and oppressed,
and of course they do.

726
00:48:38,010 --> 00:48:42,428
But again, the way the
equation is set up, the

727
00:48:42,429 --> 00:48:47,011
more you repress, the
more you produce resistance.

728
00:48:50,090 --> 00:48:54,970
So now, we're going to have a line and
we're going to continue with that line.

729
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,650
How the other side responds is up to them.

730
00:48:58,140 --> 00:49:02,430
But I can assure you if you continue to
repress, then of course, we're going to

731
00:49:03,180 --> 00:49:04,650
resist.

732
00:49:04,651 --> 00:49:07,310
And the resistance will continue to grow.

733
00:49:07,910 --> 00:49:09,050
And it is growing.

734
00:49:09,990 --> 00:49:13,150
Why do you think they use such a level of
violence?

735
00:49:13,990 --> 00:49:15,030
I mean, was it necessary?

736
00:49:15,270 --> 00:49:19,750
I mean, where you like the movement was so
strong they wouldn't be broken away?

737
00:49:20,130 --> 00:49:25,770
Wasn't it any other ways and other means
of crushing you down or dispersing you

738
00:49:25,771 --> 00:49:30,459
through softer means of
intimidation, like, I don't

739
00:49:30,460 --> 00:49:33,710
know, threats, cutting of
the funding and other things.

740
00:49:34,085 --> 00:49:38,630
Why this state, why the police went all
the way?

741
00:49:38,910 --> 00:49:43,670
I mean, to be fair, has been, they haven't
violently repressed us.

742
00:49:43,790 --> 00:49:47,830
But what I've seen from other places and
talking to other students is very clear,

743
00:49:48,030 --> 00:49:49,030
two couple things.

744
00:49:49,650 --> 00:49:51,810
They're afraid of it growing, right?

745
00:49:52,330 --> 00:49:55,950
If you crack down, hopefully you produce
enough fear and people not to get involved.

746
00:49:56,300 --> 00:49:57,870
That's one of the equations they're
making.

747
00:49:57,871 --> 00:50:00,690
Also, this is a, Israel is in crisis.

748
00:50:01,210 --> 00:50:02,350
Zionism is in crisis.

749
00:50:02,570 --> 00:50:05,816
This is the probably, in
my understanding, the

750
00:50:05,817 --> 00:50:08,871
weakest Zionism has
ever been ideologically.

751
00:50:08,950 --> 00:50:11,050
It doesn't have the same hold on people
anymore.

752
00:50:11,470 --> 00:50:15,490
So, you have to crush it down in such a
way that to hopefully extinguish it.

753
00:50:15,890 --> 00:50:20,890
So, and I think the show of force doesn't
come from, ironically, might sound a bit

754
00:50:21,715 --> 00:50:22,715
contradictory.

755
00:50:23,150 --> 00:50:25,311
But for me, the show of force isn't a sign
of strength.

756
00:50:26,580 --> 00:50:27,930
It's a sign of weakness for me.

757
00:50:28,130 --> 00:50:32,630
But you think this, it's like,
you know, the famous for non-text,

758
00:50:32,950 --> 00:50:33,950
a dying colonialism.

759
00:50:34,890 --> 00:50:39,290
A dying colonialism will always produce
this kind of last-minute existential

760
00:50:39,291 --> 00:50:43,550
violence against the people they think are
trying to do away with them.

761
00:50:43,775 --> 00:50:45,136
And I think that's what we see it.

762
00:50:46,230 --> 00:50:47,751
So, you think it's a sign of weakness.

763
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:55,430
But then this police violence has galvanized
people beyond the question of Palestine.

764
00:50:55,950 --> 00:51:01,770
So, now we have the liberals joining in
because of freedom of speech, for example.

765
00:51:02,150 --> 00:51:05,251
Have you had like new people,
new layers of people coming

766
00:51:05,252 --> 00:51:07,750
to join in who were not
worried about Palestine before?

767
00:51:09,250 --> 00:51:10,250
And they're still not.

768
00:51:11,055 --> 00:51:13,310
We have people who are still not worried
about Palestine.

769
00:51:13,980 --> 00:51:16,290
But they would say, this is ridiculous.

770
00:51:17,150 --> 00:51:20,290
This is what we're seeing across campuses
are peaceful.

771
00:51:23,390 --> 00:51:30,390
Under what...why would you call in the
police, the state trooper?

772
00:51:30,610 --> 00:51:35,159
Why would you have snipers
in university buildings and offices

773
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,730
and on top of university
buildings pointing at students?

774
00:51:37,731 --> 00:51:42,110
Under what...for what are overwhelmingly
peaceful protests?

775
00:51:43,710 --> 00:51:46,512
So, even like... I mean,
you've probably seen the videos

776
00:51:46,513 --> 00:51:49,350
of like departments or chair
departments being arrested.

777
00:51:50,230 --> 00:51:51,570
White women being arrested.

778
00:51:52,170 --> 00:51:53,910
White women being promoted to the ground.

779
00:51:54,270 --> 00:51:57,169
Not to say I know their
position on Palestine, but

780
00:51:57,170 --> 00:51:59,631
we're seeing every day these
encounters with the police.

781
00:52:00,430 --> 00:52:04,390
And people must think to themselves,
this is insanity.

782
00:52:04,810 --> 00:52:06,450
And we're seeing that day in and day out.

783
00:52:09,350 --> 00:52:13,931
Again, as someone who's like... I mean,
you're...sorry, sorry, but just one second.

784
00:52:15,170 --> 00:52:16,170
No one's.

785
00:52:21,830 --> 00:52:26,050
So, as someone, I mean, you study control
by history of the colonialism.

786
00:52:26,870 --> 00:52:30,750
And you've written a book which I try to
show soon to come to the audience as well.

787
00:52:31,170 --> 00:52:33,864
But, I'm sure there
are lots of discussion

788
00:52:33,865 --> 00:52:36,530
between you, your kind
of comrades in the camps.

789
00:52:36,770 --> 00:52:38,263
I mean, when you're
reading books, you're

790
00:52:38,264 --> 00:52:40,410
discussing, you're like
having theoretical sessions.

791
00:52:40,411 --> 00:52:46,230
What is like the main understanding among
you and how a student said Cornell?

792
00:52:46,770 --> 00:52:48,570
Why United States is doing it?

793
00:52:48,690 --> 00:52:54,410
Is it because, as Mir Shai Mir says,
the Israeli lobby has gone deep to every

794
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:58,057
corner and every
part of American, fabric

795
00:52:58,058 --> 00:53:00,850
and American political
life and institution?

796
00:53:01,130 --> 00:53:07,750
Or is it because Israel is a very
important device for American imperialism

797
00:53:07,751 --> 00:53:14,090
and is such an important asset that losing
it would be detrimental and existential

798
00:53:14,091 --> 00:53:16,950
threat to the overall life of American
imperialism?

799
00:53:19,720 --> 00:53:22,455
I don't think those things
are necessarily in conflict,

800
00:53:22,456 --> 00:53:25,230
but I think there's so much
more than the even that.

801
00:53:25,830 --> 00:53:29,767
There's, of course,
the strategic nature and

802
00:53:29,768 --> 00:53:32,930
positionality of Israel
within the region.

803
00:53:33,350 --> 00:53:35,070
There's, of course, US imperialism.

804
00:53:35,095 --> 00:53:36,930
US imperialism is driving this.

805
00:53:37,390 --> 00:53:40,386
There's, of course,
the Zionist lobby in the

806
00:53:40,387 --> 00:53:44,231
West and the strength
of the Zionist lobby.

807
00:53:44,855 --> 00:53:48,670
I also want to bring in, maybe,
there's a pathological understanding and a

808
00:53:48,671 --> 00:53:53,210
theological understanding, even that
people in who are evangelical Christians,

809
00:53:53,211 --> 00:53:59,950
and that's also a very strong lobby in
this country, sincerely believe that in

810
00:53:59,951 --> 00:54:05,083
order for creating the conditions
of the Messiah to combat,

811
00:54:05,084 --> 00:54:08,630
that Jewish people must
return to the land of Israel.

812
00:54:09,030 --> 00:54:12,550
That is, I would not be surprised if that
is also guiding some decisions.

813
00:54:13,190 --> 00:54:14,964
So, I don't think it's just
one thing, and also we

814
00:54:14,965 --> 00:54:17,190
can talk about the political
economy of capitalism.

815
00:54:17,970 --> 00:54:20,306
And Alicadria has written
about Alicadria material

816
00:54:20,307 --> 00:54:22,910
capacity of written about
accumulation by waste.

817
00:54:23,530 --> 00:54:29,310
Insofar as that, you need to waste
people's life by killing them in the

818
00:54:29,311 --> 00:54:33,670
global south by, in short, extraction and
accumulation for capital.

819
00:54:35,690 --> 00:54:40,250
I mean, this is, I mean, you're in
America, you've in much better composition

820
00:54:40,251 --> 00:54:45,810
to understand that, but this whole like
Christian evangelical Zionist,

821
00:54:46,590 --> 00:54:52,550
are they really ever present and are they
going to only present in American life?

822
00:54:52,750 --> 00:54:54,310
Do you see them a lot or are they real?

823
00:54:54,470 --> 00:54:56,110
I mean, because it's a bit difficult too.

824
00:54:56,290 --> 00:54:57,790
I imagine them from outside.

825
00:54:58,430 --> 00:55:00,490
I mean, I didn't teach
them for a bit, I mean,

826
00:55:00,491 --> 00:55:02,090
as you yell, but still
I don't understand.

827
00:55:02,091 --> 00:55:06,190
And other real, is it an invention because
America needs them?

828
00:55:06,350 --> 00:55:11,030
It's an ideological invention because they
have to explain the necessity of Israel,

829
00:55:11,270 --> 00:55:13,524
defending Israel and
pumping all its taxpayers'

830
00:55:13,525 --> 00:55:16,510
money, and so they
come up with this narrative.

831
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:20,690
That's a fair take, but it exists.

832
00:55:20,910 --> 00:55:27,610
For example, look at Manuch's suffix,
Congress hearing, and then the congressman

833
00:55:27,611 --> 00:55:32,110
said to Manuch, this is Congress,
by the way, of a, you know, of a quote of

834
00:55:32,111 --> 00:55:34,530
course secular nation, which means not
right.

835
00:55:35,390 --> 00:55:40,430
But the congressman
asked Manuch, do you know

836
00:55:40,431 --> 00:55:44,210
Genesis, and I don't know
the verse myself, number?

837
00:55:45,310 --> 00:55:46,310
She said, I don't know.

838
00:55:46,940 --> 00:55:49,950
He said, let me read it out
to you, and it was essentially

839
00:55:49,951 --> 00:55:54,610
talking about the Jews being
in Israel and getting a curse.

840
00:55:55,825 --> 00:55:59,470
And then he said, do you want Colombia to
be cursed by God?

841
00:56:01,140 --> 00:56:03,294
This was a very serious
congressional hearing

842
00:56:03,295 --> 00:56:06,231
in which the whole
nation had eyes on, right?

843
00:56:06,450 --> 00:56:10,870
And the question was, do you want Colombia
to be cursed by God?

844
00:56:11,470 --> 00:56:15,930
So I think there's some way you can,
we can talk about why they deployed that,

845
00:56:16,185 --> 00:56:17,490
but it definitely exists.

846
00:56:19,190 --> 00:56:23,150
That's the, that's the, I mean,
it wasn't, it wasn't for himself,

847
00:56:23,350 --> 00:56:24,350
he was a Christian.

848
00:56:25,950 --> 00:56:30,090
Okay, so, so if that's the case,
I mean, so getting rid of this is not

849
00:56:30,091 --> 00:56:33,290
going to be easy, but for me, I mean,
what I'm really like surprise,

850
00:56:33,291 --> 00:56:36,710
and I really doesn't go with me,
it's like the price America is paying.

851
00:56:37,310 --> 00:56:40,650
And as you know better than me,
I mean, like right now in China,

852
00:56:40,651 --> 00:56:46,250
for example, I think, like it's from
tomorrow, they're going to talk about like

853
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:48,650
Uyghurs, yeah?

854
00:56:50,310 --> 00:56:55,330
It's like no one would buy America's like
shot about helping Uyghurs, no one would

855
00:56:55,331 --> 00:56:59,830
buy their shot about helping like an
Iranian women about like the question of

856
00:56:59,831 --> 00:57:02,668
human writing Venezuela
in Nicaragua and saying,

857
00:57:02,669 --> 00:57:05,130
how much, how much
damage do you think to them?

858
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:11,650
And soft power apparatus of American
imperialism, the last 202 days has done.

859
00:57:13,860 --> 00:57:18,190
It's done for me in irreparable damage in
America's standing and also irreparable

860
00:57:18,191 --> 00:57:23,010
damage in the institutions of the world,
because again, how is it like,

861
00:57:23,510 --> 00:57:25,650
and I think we have to situate this,
right?

862
00:57:26,100 --> 00:57:29,250
So close to Ukraine.

863
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:31,710
So close to Ukraine.

864
00:57:31,870 --> 00:57:32,870
Ukraine is lower.

865
00:57:32,950 --> 00:57:36,990
Two years in now, we're talking about a
time where the whole world had Ukrainian

866
00:57:36,991 --> 00:57:41,290
flags all over, we're not permitting
Ukrainian refugees, they were talking

867
00:57:41,291 --> 00:57:43,330
about Ukraine has a right to defend
itself.

868
00:57:43,990 --> 00:57:47,736
mainstream media was
showing the making of multiple

869
00:57:47,737 --> 00:57:50,910
bottles, weapons, and
supporting Ukrainian resistance.

870
00:57:51,850 --> 00:57:57,310
And we had all this rhetoric, we had,
oh, these are not immigrants, these are

871
00:57:57,311 --> 00:58:00,870
blonde hair and blue eyes on mainstream
media people were saying this.

872
00:58:01,350 --> 00:58:03,112
We talked, we had
universities come out in

873
00:58:03,113 --> 00:58:05,871
support of Ukraine
against Russian aggression.

874
00:58:06,130 --> 00:58:09,290
This is only like, this is only an air
shot of what is happening today.

875
00:58:09,690 --> 00:58:14,970
So we have like, we can just juxtapose the
headlines so easily, we can juxtapose the

876
00:58:15,095 --> 00:58:17,810
reporting so easily of these cases.

877
00:58:18,710 --> 00:58:21,812
And again, Putin has
not bombed the single

878
00:58:21,813 --> 00:58:26,271
hospital, but Israel has
a right to defend itself.

879
00:58:26,370 --> 00:58:29,710
But while by international law,
the whole basis of the condemnation of

880
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:34,440
Putin and the swiftness
in which the ICC issued a

881
00:58:34,441 --> 00:58:38,130
arrest warrant was the
violation of international law.

882
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:42,790
But hospitals have been bombed in Gaza,
universities have been bombed in Gaza,

883
00:58:43,610 --> 00:58:47,930
the civilian toll is immense in Gaza,
and that is not being condemned.

884
00:58:48,210 --> 00:58:51,590
So the whole, and again, we just look at
the voting patterns between these issues.

885
00:58:51,990 --> 00:58:54,465
There is clearly a
heightened contradiction

886
00:58:54,466 --> 00:58:57,091
between the global North
and the global South.

887
00:58:57,310 --> 00:59:03,090
And I think America's response and Joe
Biden's willingness to lose their election

888
00:59:03,540 --> 00:59:07,010
has proven, it's going to be costly.

889
00:59:07,170 --> 00:59:11,230
And I think there is irreparable damage
done to the moral standing if there ever

890
00:59:11,231 --> 00:59:15,590
was, I mean there never was, but at least
the facade of moral standing of the West.

891
00:59:24,090 --> 00:59:25,480
Sorry Alaykhan, hey you.

892
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:29,640
I said, I know that you have a bit of a
stressful day, so at least let's watch

893
00:59:29,641 --> 00:59:32,460
this video to give you a bit of
entertaining.

894
00:59:33,300 --> 00:59:33,500
Clear.

895
00:59:33,740 --> 00:59:37,720
It was the covenant that God made with
Abraham.

896
00:59:39,690 --> 00:59:42,080
And that covenant was real clear.

897
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:46,180
If you bless Israel, I will bless you.

898
00:59:46,570 --> 00:59:49,000
If you curse Israel, I will curse you.

899
00:59:49,550 --> 00:59:52,821
And then in the New
Testament, it was confirmed

900
00:59:52,822 --> 00:59:57,000
that all nations would
be blessed through you.

901
00:59:58,170 --> 01:00:01,300
So, you do not know about that.

902
01:00:02,710 --> 01:00:04,700
I have heard that now that you've
explained it.

903
01:00:04,820 --> 01:00:05,540
Yes, I have heard about that.

904
01:00:05,541 --> 01:00:06,541
It's now familiar.

905
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:09,440
You consider that a serious issue?

906
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:15,340
I mean, do you want Columbia University to
be cursed by God of the Bible?

907
01:00:16,820 --> 01:00:17,820
Definitely not.

908
01:00:19,650 --> 01:00:25,240
I mean, I'm brought up by watching V.O.A.,
Voice of America and BBC, like bringing

909
01:00:25,241 --> 01:00:29,620
one Friday prayer in Iran and who mentions
Quran.

910
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:34,901
And this direct immediate
relation between Quran and current

911
01:00:34,902 --> 01:00:38,540
affair and the law for them
as these socratic crazy people.

912
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:42,198
And just like you have
this socratical attempt

913
01:00:42,199 --> 01:00:44,660
in writing the congress
is unbelievable.

914
01:00:44,661 --> 01:00:49,540
So, how do you like normal students,
not the proper scene and not the leftist,

915
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:53,400
not the anti-imperialist, how do normal
students in Quran?

916
01:00:53,500 --> 01:00:54,940
It's quite a part of Ivy League.

917
01:00:55,140 --> 01:00:56,680
It's a very prestigious place.

918
01:00:57,260 --> 01:00:58,260
Kids are like clever.

919
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:00,200
They've read many books, I mean,
right or left.

920
01:01:00,470 --> 01:01:01,671
But they are intelligent kids.

921
01:01:02,060 --> 01:01:06,540
How do they react into this level of
political madness?

922
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:15,721
It's hard to say because Quranal has a
deeply, unfortunately, it's quite apolitical.

923
01:01:16,020 --> 01:01:19,066
But at the same time,
my feeling, if we go on

924
01:01:19,067 --> 01:01:21,901
certain forums, people
think this is insanity.

925
01:01:22,020 --> 01:01:23,020
They think it's madness.

926
01:01:23,260 --> 01:01:27,040
They think that a foreign government is
now dictating state and university policy.

927
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:33,660
So, the scene literally, the foreign
government having so much sway over even

928
01:01:33,661 --> 01:01:37,700
those who might be quote unquote patriotic
are like, how does a foreign government

929
01:01:38,150 --> 01:01:41,324
have been able to interfere
in such a way of campus

930
01:01:41,325 --> 01:01:44,261
life and also at national
level of this country?

931
01:01:44,695 --> 01:01:49,380
So, I always thought, I mean, this level
of support for Israel would bring people

932
01:01:49,381 --> 01:01:53,140
of not only from the left, from different
kinds of part of politics, from like

933
01:01:53,600 --> 01:02:01,600
Libertari and like Rampol and also from
like, as I said, patriotic, even like part

934
01:02:01,601 --> 01:02:06,220
of Trump is nationalist because the
question of American sovereignty also as a

935
01:02:06,395 --> 01:02:08,900
country in a little empire is on the
question now.

936
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:11,320
But we don't see enough of that yet,
have we?

937
01:02:13,050 --> 01:02:14,580
No, not enough of that yet.

938
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:18,480
But I think it's only a matter of time
personally.

939
01:02:19,220 --> 01:02:20,240
Okay, all right.

940
01:02:20,660 --> 01:02:25,080
I want to take it to this little thing I
found on BBC today, sorry, if I could find

941
01:02:25,081 --> 01:02:29,440
this one here, we go on BBC and it's like
really surprising.

942
01:02:29,441 --> 01:02:33,900
I mean, again, it's a kind of normal
picture, I'm sure, if it's someone like

943
01:02:33,901 --> 01:02:38,827
you, like me, a brown
man, but then the image is

944
01:02:38,828 --> 01:02:43,160
the angry Arab man, the
angry black man, yeah.

945
01:02:43,545 --> 01:02:48,960
So, it's not sympathizable, so for the BBC
audience possibly.

946
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:54,313
Have you seen this kind
of subliminal demonization

947
01:02:54,314 --> 01:02:57,821
in media against the
student protests a lot?

948
01:02:59,650 --> 01:03:07,500
Of course, but that's, but I think the
war, I don't think I was adequately

949
01:03:07,501 --> 01:03:13,040
prepared to live in the United States as a
Muslim because the logics of the,

950
01:03:13,041 --> 01:03:20,920
or the on logics of the war on terror has
done such damage to Muslims and even non

951
01:03:20,921 --> 01:03:25,860
-Muslims, I have my black friends who are
non-Muslim and they have great politics.

952
01:03:25,910 --> 01:03:30,580
And they're people who I love daily,
but even they are having to have to

953
01:03:30,581 --> 01:03:33,380
unlearn the Islam, not
they're not Islamophobic,

954
01:03:33,381 --> 01:03:35,960
but they're having to
unlearn the Islamophobia.

955
01:03:36,650 --> 01:03:40,973
We have very deep and
very meaningful conversations

956
01:03:40,974 --> 01:03:44,120
about their perceptions of
Islam, these are my friends.

957
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:50,340
So, the psyche of, especially in the United
States has just been deeply Islamophobic.

958
01:03:50,341 --> 01:03:54,560
And the war on terror has the afterlife of
the war on terror, I don't know if I can

959
01:03:54,710 --> 01:03:56,401
call it the afterlife
if it's still going on,

960
01:03:56,402 --> 01:03:59,261
not the war on terror,
but the war on Muslims.

961
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:03,820
But the image of the Arab, the image of
the Muslim, the image, the sounding of

962
01:04:03,821 --> 01:04:08,420
Arabic words are all tainted and painted
as inherent threats.

963
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:14,380
So, people are having to unlearn that and
anytime you see mainstream media diving

964
01:04:14,381 --> 01:04:17,660
into that, it is a continuation of that
clearly.

965
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:23,180
So, you think like Britain, I mean someone
who's brought up in London, you think in

966
01:04:23,181 --> 01:04:26,131
London you experience
less of Islamophobia than

967
01:04:26,132 --> 01:04:29,381
you've had in the States
in the last couple of years.

968
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:32,580
Absolutely, so much less.

969
01:04:33,550 --> 01:04:34,550
So much less.

970
01:04:35,020 --> 01:04:38,140
And in terms of police violence,
how do you compare British police

971
01:04:38,141 --> 01:04:44,080
violence, especially if you were here
during the protests of last year in 2020,

972
01:04:44,620 --> 01:04:45,820
with American police violence?

973
01:04:49,940 --> 01:04:57,540
I guess my experience with British police,
I mean they don't normally have guns,

974
01:04:57,700 --> 01:05:00,460
like every day Bobby's on the beat,
so I was always a positive sign.

975
01:05:00,830 --> 01:05:06,360
It's very like, nerving when you're on
campus and police have guns.

976
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:10,028
I've been in a rally where
my friend went to look for

977
01:05:10,029 --> 01:05:12,860
his phone and the police
went to draw for his weapon.

978
01:05:13,700 --> 01:05:17,220
So, there is that way in the UK,
there isn't that.

979
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:18,880
Again, that's on campus, right?

980
01:05:19,420 --> 01:05:21,020
So in the UK we don't have that.

981
01:05:21,500 --> 01:05:25,560
I'm again by again, that's not to diminish
or undermine the brutality in which the

982
01:05:25,561 --> 01:05:31,221
Metropolitan Police and several other
police forces in the United Kingdom operate.

983
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:33,920
No, no, no, no, I've experienced it
firsthand.

984
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:36,571
So, all right, I'm going to
ask a few of the questions,

985
01:05:36,572 --> 01:05:38,460
I'm going to ask a few of the
questions from the audience.

986
01:05:38,461 --> 01:05:43,781
But before that, you mentioned Fanon, you
mentioned your opposition to capitalism.

987
01:05:44,300 --> 01:05:49,900
So, if you just give us two things, one,
the class dynamic of their protest movement.

988
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:53,400
I mean, because these universities are
usually really rich universities,

989
01:05:53,725 --> 01:05:57,184
also filled with rich kids
as well, but they're very

990
01:05:57,185 --> 01:05:59,661
prestigious places and
they're normal people as well.

991
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:02,140
So, who are on the front line?

992
01:06:02,620 --> 01:06:07,780
Rich kids, people coming from like the
American equivalent of aristocracy or

993
01:06:07,781 --> 01:06:11,221
bourgeois classes or no,
these are like kids who have

994
01:06:11,222 --> 01:06:13,661
gone with difficulty in
order to make a better life.

995
01:06:14,225 --> 01:06:17,327
So, if you just open a bit
the class dynamic of the

996
01:06:17,328 --> 01:06:19,521
movement, not only in
Cornell, but other places.

997
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:25,720
It's independent on where they are,
right?

998
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:30,920
If you look at the stuff in Northern
California, they're definitely working

999
01:06:30,921 --> 01:06:35,620
class kids who are drenched in poverty,
who have impoverty imposed imposed on them.

1000
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:38,920
In Colombia and a lot of these Ivy
leagues, of course, they're going to be of

1001
01:06:38,921 --> 01:06:43,360
a certain class position, even that they
own scholarships or that their parents are

1002
01:06:43,361 --> 01:06:45,620
middle class or part of the managerial
class.

1003
01:06:45,995 --> 01:06:48,400
So, that's what I've seen, especially Ivy
leagues anyway.

1004
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:49,760
But again, it's a mix.

1005
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:51,260
Okay, it's a mix.

1006
01:06:51,700 --> 01:06:52,700
That's one thing.

1007
01:06:53,100 --> 01:06:55,252
And the second thing is you
mentioned Fanon, you mentioned

1008
01:06:55,253 --> 01:06:58,740
your opposition to capitalism,
liberalism and things.

1009
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:03,360
But also, you seem to define yourself as a
Muslim.

1010
01:07:03,820 --> 01:07:05,520
How would you bring these things together?

1011
01:07:05,521 --> 01:07:12,120
Because again, comparing with like 68,
68 was like more like things were simpler.

1012
01:07:12,340 --> 01:07:16,280
You had like the Marxist, socialist
tradition in a very kind of a

1013
01:07:16,605 --> 01:07:18,180
straightforward way.

1014
01:07:18,540 --> 01:07:24,140
Leading the movement of different kind
from Maoist, Leninist, trotist and things.

1015
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:26,620
But not things seems to be different.

1016
01:07:27,045 --> 01:07:30,980
And how would you reconcile these two
parts of your identity?

1017
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:34,500
And also, what about the other people in
your encampment?

1018
01:07:34,501 --> 01:07:37,600
And then at large in American protest
movement?

1019
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:43,020
It's very difficult to tell.

1020
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:47,740
I think what the BLM movement did is bring
back... I'm not bring back sorry,

1021
01:07:47,980 --> 01:07:52,880
but spotlight, highlight abolition once
again as a political orientation.

1022
01:07:53,740 --> 01:07:56,760
I think anarchism is quite strong amongst
a lot of young people.

1023
01:07:57,390 --> 01:08:01,020
I think communism is stronger amongst a
lot of young people.

1024
01:08:02,460 --> 01:08:03,700
Marxist Leninism is strong.

1025
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:06,000
All kind of sections, fractions of the
left, right?

1026
01:08:06,330 --> 01:08:09,222
A broad... If you take a
broad stroke of the left, you'll

1027
01:08:09,223 --> 01:08:12,220
find a lot of young people
subscribing to those ideologies.

1028
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:17,000
How do I reconcile the true phase I'm
still working through it?

1029
01:08:17,100 --> 01:08:23,620
But I don't see a contradiction between my
adopting a Marxist analysis of material

1030
01:08:23,795 --> 01:08:25,700
conditions and believing in Allah.

1031
01:08:25,900 --> 01:08:31,620
I don't see... If anything, I think a
politic of anti-capitalism is deeply

1032
01:08:31,621 --> 01:08:35,080
rooted in the Quran and the Quranic
injunctions.

1033
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:39,900
And I just find that Marxism and Leninism
helps me explain that a lot.

1034
01:08:40,770 --> 01:08:44,551
Okay, I'm finally going
to handle my promise

1035
01:08:44,552 --> 01:08:48,181
to my audience and bring
some of the questions.

1036
01:08:48,340 --> 01:08:51,860
First question is a bit like, sorry about
that.

1037
01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:54,300
Okay.

1038
01:08:54,301 --> 01:08:55,301
All right.

1039
01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:59,591
So first question, I think
I need to do one little

1040
01:08:59,666 --> 01:09:03,400
thing and this start has to
change so we can read it.

1041
01:09:06,860 --> 01:09:07,300
Okay.

1042
01:09:07,550 --> 01:09:08,550
Sorry about that moment.

1043
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:15,960
I'm not supposed to go back to London
yesterday and then... for...

1044
01:09:15,961 --> 01:09:16,961
No, where is the tool?

1045
01:09:20,440 --> 01:09:23,793
Okay, so... It's a bit messy and unprofessional
of me, but all right, let's just.

1046
01:09:23,852 --> 01:09:28,660
.. If you can read this one, if you
cannot, I have to... Now, I can see this.

1047
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:29,760
I can see this.

1048
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:30,400
And you?

1049
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:31,720
Okay, let's see.

1050
01:09:32,500 --> 01:09:33,140
Yeah, okay.

1051
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:34,060
I can read it.

1052
01:09:34,100 --> 01:09:34,500
I can read it.

1053
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:35,220
All right.

1054
01:09:35,340 --> 01:09:35,540
Okay.

1055
01:09:36,030 --> 01:09:37,600
He's Hanir Ali Mardani.

1056
01:09:37,820 --> 01:09:41,920
He says, how does he see the 2024
elections among university graduates?

1057
01:09:42,460 --> 01:09:45,046
After years of competition
between Republicans and

1058
01:09:45,047 --> 01:09:47,980
Democrats, is it a new option
not to vote for any of them?

1059
01:09:50,740 --> 01:09:55,180
Yeah, and again, I can only speak about
the people I'm in contact with and what

1060
01:09:55,181 --> 01:09:58,722
has been the pretty much
feeling and mood is that

1061
01:09:58,723 --> 01:10:01,961
even for third party
candidate or not voting at all.

1062
01:10:02,500 --> 01:10:06,191
But again, Biden has
willing to... Biden is willing

1063
01:10:06,192 --> 01:10:08,821
to lose this election
to support a genocide.

1064
01:10:09,620 --> 01:10:10,080
Oh, that's amazing.

1065
01:10:10,500 --> 01:10:10,500
Yeah.

1066
01:10:10,980 --> 01:10:15,120
So it's not much like party politics at
the moment in the campus now.

1067
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:17,760
No.

1068
01:10:18,700 --> 01:10:21,760
Okay, let's go to the next question.

1069
01:10:22,100 --> 01:10:26,000
And that's... was there any Iranian
students in the campus?

1070
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:28,280
I can't find these movements with you.

1071
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:29,600
Yeah.

1072
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:31,200
Yeah.

1073
01:10:32,060 --> 01:10:35,420
Okay, so I mean, you say all different
nationalities, because second generation,

1074
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:38,140
Iranians are a little bit different
from...

1075
01:10:38,141 --> 01:10:45,980
And then Helia says, sorry if it's a
little off the topic, but I want to know,

1076
01:10:46,370 --> 01:10:49,156
what did American students
in the university think and what

1077
01:10:49,157 --> 01:10:53,600
things they said about Iran's
retaliatory attack on Israel?

1078
01:10:56,575 --> 01:11:00,280
Yeah, I can never speak for American
students in the universities.

1079
01:11:00,281 --> 01:11:03,980
I can speak about the people I'm in
contact with and who I talk to.

1080
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:08,080
And again, like any political movement,
they're not going to have...

1081
01:11:08,330 --> 01:11:12,120
You know, they're not going to be
consensus on how they feel.

1082
01:11:12,465 --> 01:11:15,128
However, I would say I
have been impressed with

1083
01:11:15,129 --> 01:11:17,320
many people who are
directly in contact with.

1084
01:11:17,420 --> 01:11:20,865
When everyone understood
it, it was a retaliatory

1085
01:11:20,866 --> 01:11:25,360
attack, which was meaningful
to restore a deterrent.

1086
01:11:25,970 --> 01:11:28,226
And that's been the
kind of theme and mood

1087
01:11:28,227 --> 01:11:31,701
and feeling which of
people that I've heard.

1088
01:11:32,180 --> 01:11:33,960
Okay, another question.

1089
01:11:36,900 --> 01:11:43,060
All right, again, Hania Ali Mardani says,
how does he see the impact of these recent

1090
01:11:43,061 --> 01:11:46,860
events on American values and liberalism
in the American society itself?

1091
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:51,201
Thank you so much for the question,
honey.

1092
01:11:51,700 --> 01:11:51,920
Absolutely.

1093
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:55,726
Again, liberalism has
been exposed to why it's

1094
01:11:55,727 --> 01:11:58,340
always been a racist
and a societal project.

1095
01:11:58,520 --> 01:11:59,840
And people are seeing that now.

1096
01:11:59,841 --> 01:12:03,960
People are definitely seeing the lives of
liberalism, the lives of neo-liberalism

1097
01:12:04,210 --> 01:12:05,400
and the lives of capitalism.

1098
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:12,460
Okay, Henry Jackson says, is there any
other suggested legal way for students to

1099
01:12:12,461 --> 01:12:14,920
object on the American government in
regards to Israel?

1100
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:21,275
I mean, yeah, people ask
people are doing protests, people

1101
01:12:21,276 --> 01:12:24,400
are doing petitions, people
are pursuing legal avenues.

1102
01:12:24,401 --> 01:12:29,440
I guess through, but again, I can only
speak about what I'm doing.

1103
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:32,600
So I'm at Cornell, and I know that Cornell
had direct investment.

1104
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:35,320
I don't think calling for divestment is
illegal.

1105
01:12:35,540 --> 01:12:36,040
It's actually not.

1106
01:12:36,350 --> 01:12:39,960
If anything, we are asking for Cornell to
follow their own guidelines.

1107
01:12:40,540 --> 01:12:44,380
In Cornell in 2016 issued a set of
guidelines for divestment.

1108
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:48,860
They said we must consider divestment from
morally reprehensible investments,

1109
01:12:49,240 --> 01:12:50,400
from genocide and apartheid.

1110
01:12:51,460 --> 01:12:53,497
Which we believe
that this genocide will

1111
01:12:53,498 --> 01:12:56,641
warn the Palestinians
fulfills that criteria.

1112
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:03,220
All right, and then finally, Ben Am,
which is like, I don't know, anonymous,

1113
01:13:03,810 --> 01:13:07,600
says, what's the reaction of the
university lectures who are not Zionists

1114
01:13:07,950 --> 01:13:09,740
about the militarization of university?

1115
01:13:11,850 --> 01:13:13,760
It has been overwhelmingly
positive in the

1116
01:13:13,761 --> 01:13:15,780
sense that they are
thinking this is ridiculous.

1117
01:13:15,781 --> 01:13:22,420
This is a flies in the face of what a
university is supposed to be, and they

1118
01:13:22,421 --> 01:13:24,680
have come out in solidarity in support of
us.

1119
01:13:26,100 --> 01:13:28,460
Okay, all right, so that's interesting.

1120
01:13:28,660 --> 01:13:32,920
In a sense, we see a bit of weakness of
liberalism as well.

1121
01:13:33,505 --> 01:13:38,120
If it's really, as they say, liberalism
and liberal values are strong in America,

1122
01:13:38,300 --> 01:13:43,220
we should have seen a much wider concept
of protest.

1123
01:13:43,445 --> 01:13:49,600
And anger against what's happening here,
and that's one of the final question.

1124
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:54,740
Do you think the students can take the
movement outside the geographical and

1125
01:13:54,741 --> 01:13:58,900
physical boundaries of the university
campuses and to the city at large?

1126
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:04,780
As 68 students took it to, at least in
Paris, they took it to the factories and

1127
01:14:04,781 --> 01:14:11,080
they tried to get workers involved and to
connect it to other forms of struggle.

1128
01:14:11,430 --> 01:14:15,380
Do you see that's possible here,
or is it going to be limited to campus?

1129
01:14:15,700 --> 01:14:16,700
Absolutely.

1130
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:23,100
No, no, no, these encampments are only the
beginning, and this will be the test of

1131
01:14:23,375 --> 01:14:26,887
our organizational
capacity will be the moment,

1132
01:14:26,937 --> 01:14:29,640
not if, but when we
bring it to union workers.

1133
01:14:29,940 --> 01:14:33,120
But when we bring it to traditional
people, there have been traditional parts

1134
01:14:33,121 --> 01:14:38,541
of society that have been anti-war and
anti-US imperialism and anti-US militarism.

1135
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:41,680
And I have high hopes that that is going
to be the case.

1136
01:14:42,165 --> 01:14:45,880
We have seen the way the general public
has supported the Colombian government,

1137
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:48,880
it hasn't just been students, it hasn't
just been students.

1138
01:14:49,220 --> 01:14:53,320
And we can argue that it's not growing as
fast as it should be, or the numbers

1139
01:14:53,321 --> 01:14:57,670
aren't where we want them to be, but I have
high confidence that it's growing fast.

1140
01:14:57,900 --> 01:14:58,900
Okay.

1141
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:03,407
And finally, you are like
from Global South, originally,

1142
01:15:03,408 --> 01:15:05,801
and you are like part of
the South in the North.

1143
01:15:06,340 --> 01:15:09,207
And there's a lot of going
to talk about what can

1144
01:15:09,208 --> 01:15:12,001
finally help Palestinian
to get their rights back.

1145
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:17,334
Of the movement in America,
the help of South Africa and

1146
01:15:17,335 --> 01:15:20,980
ICJ, or the resistance of
different forms inside Palestine.

1147
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:22,963
And one of these kinds
of resistance, the question

1148
01:15:22,964 --> 01:15:25,041
goes to other countries
who are willing to help them.

1149
01:15:25,350 --> 01:15:31,020
And I mean Iran, for better or worse, has
been on front line of helping Palestine.

1150
01:15:31,260 --> 01:15:35,260
Many people say it's for its own selfish
nationalistic reasons.

1151
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:40,380
Many people say Iran has shown principle
support for the last 45 years.

1152
01:15:40,980 --> 01:15:44,200
And I want to know what you think,
I mean, as someone who is coming from

1153
01:15:44,201 --> 01:15:48,180
Sunni Islam background, and are,
at least in the last 10 years,

1154
01:15:48,460 --> 01:15:51,727
the region and the Muslim
community at large has

1155
01:15:51,728 --> 01:15:54,861
been filled with different
forms of sectarianism.

1156
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:58,640
Let us fight against each other right and
working towards a more pan Islamic,

1157
01:15:59,250 --> 01:16:03,320
a more united anti-colonial unity.

1158
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:06,180
We've been fighting against Iran among
ourselves.

1159
01:16:06,620 --> 01:16:10,563
What's your opinion about
Iran and its support for different

1160
01:16:10,564 --> 01:16:14,040
resistance movements in the
region, especially in Palestine?

1161
01:16:17,170 --> 01:16:18,170
Two things.

1162
01:16:19,130 --> 01:16:21,670
I won't be able to give the topic justice
right now.

1163
01:16:22,190 --> 01:16:26,590
But what I will say is, I believe Iran is
the most important country in the region.

1164
01:16:27,350 --> 01:16:33,290
And I believe that Iran's strategic
patience, and Iran has understood US

1165
01:16:33,291 --> 01:16:35,810
imperialism better than many in the
region.

1166
01:16:40,025 --> 01:16:44,949
And I think that... I mean, I'm
personally in support of Iran's

1167
01:16:44,950 --> 01:16:49,870
positionality vis-a -vis its
stance on Zionism and Israel.

1168
01:16:52,225 --> 01:16:56,230
And then I would say, secondly,
if people want to hear my views longer,

1169
01:16:56,665 --> 01:16:58,910
I have a whole podcast
called The Markham Effect,

1170
01:16:58,911 --> 01:17:01,691
which I had a
one-and-a-half-hour discussion.

1171
01:17:01,765 --> 01:17:03,552
And which I had a whole
one-and-a-half -hour

1172
01:17:03,553 --> 01:17:06,710
discussion on this question
of Iran and their attack.

1173
01:17:07,640 --> 01:17:09,830
Okay, I'm really glad actually you
mentioned that.

1174
01:17:10,110 --> 01:17:13,445
So I will put the address
to The Markham Effect

1175
01:17:13,446 --> 01:17:16,490
underneath, and so people
can go and listen to you.

1176
01:17:16,491 --> 01:17:22,070
And also, before going, I would like to
show your book, which is also called The

1177
01:17:22,071 --> 01:17:26,350
Markham Effect, and that's the book that
you published yourself.

1178
01:17:27,460 --> 01:17:32,699
And I hope that you deal
with these people in university

1179
01:17:32,700 --> 01:17:35,950
and your suspension is
removed as soon as possible.

1180
01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:41,810
But otherwise, any help, I'm sure, situations
like this, people should come and help.

1181
01:17:41,970 --> 01:17:44,247
If you need legal
help, it should be like a

1182
01:17:44,248 --> 01:17:46,210
crowdfunding, and
we injured that as well.

1183
01:17:46,370 --> 01:17:49,196
We will work towards your
crowdfunding, and we will

1184
01:17:49,197 --> 01:17:51,590
ask people to are viewers
to help towards that.

1185
01:17:51,591 --> 01:17:55,622
But make sure that if you stood
for people in Palestine, there

1186
01:17:55,623 --> 01:17:58,590
are many people in the world
who will stand with you as well.

1187
01:17:58,690 --> 01:18:05,170
And this is like a movement, which starts
from gas all the way to LA, to Raqqornel,

1188
01:18:05,605 --> 01:18:10,850
to Iran, to all other places, because the
world would not be a free place until

1189
01:18:10,851 --> 01:18:15,590
Palestine is free, and Palestine cannot
become liberated on its own.

1190
01:18:15,591 --> 01:18:17,890
It needs the whole global awakening for
that.

1191
01:18:18,330 --> 01:18:20,210
Thank you very much for being with us
until now.

1192
01:18:20,690 --> 01:18:23,750
Tomorrow, we will be possibly with you
again.

1193
01:18:24,430 --> 01:18:26,110
I'm not going to announce the program yet.

1194
01:18:26,690 --> 01:18:28,183
And if this is anything
else you want to add,

1195
01:18:28,184 --> 01:18:30,831
please, the voice I'm
going to close the show.

1196
01:18:31,780 --> 01:18:33,310
Thank you very much.

1197
01:18:33,390 --> 01:18:33,830
Take care.

1198
01:18:34,250 --> 01:18:35,250
Are wonderful.

1199
01:18:35,310 --> 01:18:36,950
See you later, and best of luck.

1200
01:18:37,130 --> 01:18:38,130
Bye-bye.